HomeNews listOBJECTIVE PRESSY-Adam => Andrii (I2a+, Globetrekker)

Y-Adam => Andrii (I2a+, Globetrekker)

  • August 7, 2023
  • Posted by: AliensFaith
  • Category: OBJECTIVE PRESS
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Globetrekker is a new exclusive Big Y feature and represented on FamilyTreeDNA Discover pages, primarily based on Y-DNA tests results.

And this article contains my Y-DNA haplogroup I2a+ Globetrekker results review (Jul/Aug 2023) with my thoughts, observations, outcomes and history notes.

In particular I trace a genetics of “Y-DNA men like me” via my direct chain of SNPs:

I will update this article as soon as new migrations path appeared or known paths modified.

 

From FTDNA:

“About 60,000 years ago, some groups of Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, while others remained. Our direct paternal lineages trace these migrations. This unique pattern of inheritance means genealogists can use Y-DNA testing to see how closely related two males are on this paternal tree of mankind. There are two main types of Y-DNA testing for genealogists: Y-STRs and Y-SNPs”

 

From FTDNA blog about Discover Updates in 2023:

FTDNA Y-DNA Haplotree has grown with:
* Over 12,000 added haplogroup reports that bring your Y-DNA haplogroup to life.
* 20,000 high-resolution test results that refine haplogroups and provide closer TMRCA estimates.
* Thousands of Ancient Connections to provide context for ancient lineages.
* Hundreds of Notable Connections bringing fun to your ancestry.
* FTDNA is approaching 100,000 Big Y results and 70,000 Y-DNA haplogroups, two major milestones in Y-DNA testing.

 

I recorded a video which depicts an animation – migration paths in motion from Y-Adam circa 230 000 BCE till these days:

 

In comparison with basic FTDNA Y-DNA migration map, and even in comparison with FTDNA Discover Migration Map, this NEW Globetrekker map with geographical ancestor locations and migrations across the world  brought me some new insights… New map CLARIFIES many open questions, and show hidden migration paths which I didn’t consider (ESPECIALLY when “Simplify lines” sis DISABLED !!!!).

I DO very much KNOW that the algorithm is NOT fully ideal, maybe somewhere not correct and may be changed in future. FTDNA provides a list of caveats to consider. And MOST PROBABLY ALGORITHMS will be improved in future and migration paths will BE slightly but CHANGED. Still… this is very interesting so far.

DISCLAIMER 1: I will use blow a shortcut “Y-DNA man/men like me” which means ANY male man who could give a birth of his son and that way whole ancestry of men with the same Y-DNA. At the point of time when he got a Y chromosome mutation which was AT LEAST after IJ haplogroup, and into I haplogroup and ESPECIALLY I2a+ haplogroup branch, which also does have sub-branches, BUT ALL THESE MEN I do consider similar to me, because AT LEAST of nomenclature we have right now in 2023 for Y-DNA haplogroups. I2a+ haplogroup chain end sup on SNP I-FGC63213 which is NOT DIRECTLY a location-based YET and rather is a middle, theoretical location among myself (from Ukraine) one man from Lithuania and one man from russia (whose ancestry from Ukraine but himself is in USA). I hope in nearest future more Big Y700 testers will pass a Y-DNA tests and our small sub-clade will grow. Sure thing I DO CONSIDER an NPE and that my surname LUNDIAK is unique for me and my male ancestors at least since 1750 AD, but men who were before they may have been LUNDIAK or LUNDA or LUND or any surname if we consider NPE.

 

DISCLAIMER 2: I will ” inject” history notes between information from FTDNA, so that I could correlate those times from genetics and those times from actual historical events. I am not historian, so do not take my assumption as a scientific opinion, but rather as researcher-hobbyist opinion, based o available public data and analysis, comparison, outcomes. It will help me later to find out direct TRIBE which was the closest to “Y-DNA men like me” and myself as result.

 

~40,000 BCE.

I realized, that the very first migration of ” Y-DNA men like me” was from the Middle East exactly to central steppe Ukraine (time of IJ haplogroup split into I and J. IJ-P124 SNP time). In early 2014/2016 I thought that migration was from Anatolia straight to Sardinia and this Globetrekker map clears out that my mistake.

The whole path from Anatolia through lands of modern Ukraine looks VERY unbelievable for me as Ukrainian 🙂

But migration was long, and after 39k BCE “Y-DNA men like me” migrated through Belarus, Poland, Czechia (which was those men FIRST time on these lands) and somewhere 32k BCE time, mutation SNP I-L758 designated a split in Y-DNA chromosome somewhere on lands of modern Austria, a sign which helps later on to distinguish one man from another.

Global sea level during 39k – 32k BCE time period changed from -81m to -106m and in general we can do a “shortcut” that men were going upwards :). But I think this criteria is less important, at least for me now.

History notes (stay tuned…)

  • Source:
    • “Early European modern humans (EEMH), or Cro-Magnons, were the first early modern humans (Homo sapiens) to settle in Europe, migrating from western Asia, continuously occupying the continent possibly from as early as 56,800 years ago. They interacted and interbred with the indigenous Neanderthals (H. neanderthalensis) of Europe and Western Asia, who went extinct 40,000 to 35,000 years ago. The first wave of modern humans in Europe from 45,000-40,000 (Initial Upper Paleolithic) left no genetic legacy to modern Europeans; however, from 37,000 years ago a second wave succeeded in forming a single founder population, from which all EEMH descended and which contributes ancestry to present-day Europeans. EEMH produced Upper Palaeolithic cultures, the first major one being the Aurignacian, which was succeeded by the Gravettian by 30,000 years ago. The Gravettian split into the Epi-Gravettian in the east and Solutrean in the west, due to major climate degradation during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), peaking 21,000 years ago. As Europe warmed, the Solutrean evolved into the Magdalenian by 20,000 years ago, and these peoples recolonised Europe. The Magdalenian and Epi-Gravettian gave way to Mesolithic cultures as big game animals were dying out and the Last Glacial Period drew to a close.”
  • Source:
    • “An Early Aurignacian or Proto-Aurignacian stage is dated between about 43,000 and 37,000 years ago. The Aurignacian proper lasts from about 37,000 to 33,000 years ago. A Late Aurignacian phase transitional with the Gravettian dates to about 33,000 to 26,000 years ago.”
  • Source:
  • Source (Czechia):
    • “Human remains from 45,000 years ago were found in Koněprusy Caves in Zlatý kůň at Beroun District. Human remains from 30,000 years BCE were found in Mladeč caves mammoth tusks with complex engravings (again around 30,000 BCE) were found both in Pavlov and Předmostí at Přerov, making south Moravia one of the most important archeological areas in Europe.”
    • “The archeological site in Předmostí at Přerov represents the largest accumulation of human remains of the Gravettian culture, known for creating so-called Venus figurines. One of such figurines is the famous Venus of Dolní Věstonice (29,000–25,000 BCE) found in Dolní Věstonice in south Moravia along with many other artifacts from that time. Another Venus figurine is the Venus of Petřkovice, found in what is today Ostrava.”
    • “Remains of mammoth hunters from 22,000 BCE were also found in the aforementioned Kůlna Cave along with the remains of reindeer hunters and horse hunters, dated to about 10,000 years later.

 

25,000 BCE

“Y-DNA men like me” with mutation I-L758 with genome in Y chromosome somewhere between 32k BCE and 25k BCE was on lands of modern Austria, let’s say nearby mountains from both sides Carpathians/Tatrs and Alps. And for some reason they started migration towards lands of modern Hungary lands. Through Wien they migrated to west Hungary lands.

But they were not there long time and turned back to Austria. Why? Was it too cold? Assumable yes, because Globetrekker map also shows LGM which advanced from Alps and surrounding locations.

Quote from FTDNA Discover Globetrekker:

Light blue shapes show the extent of glaciers as they advanced (Last Glacial Maximum, around 20,000 years ago) and retreated.

Note: don’t misinterpret bright blue color which is so called “corridor” of migration path.

That was the time was just before I haplogroup split into I1 and I2. I-M170 is considered LAST SNP to which BOTH I1+ and  I2+ Y-DNA men are POSITIVE on SNP yDNA test level.

 

 

BTW, even current FTDNA Discover Migration Map now looks oversimplified because it doesn’t show this path (it omits Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Czechia and renders line straight from Anatolia to Hungary).

So we can’t say that there was NO path from Anatolia to Hungary, BUT new map from Globetrekker much closer reflects a granular migration path and it much better reflects my recent 2020-2023 knowledge of I2a Y DNA SNPs and migrations from other systems.

 

History notes (stay tuned…)

  • Source:
    • “The Gravettian was an archaeological industry of the European Upper Paleolithic that succeeded the Aurignacian circa 33,000 years BP. It is archaeologically the last European culture many consider unified, and had mostly disappeared by c. 22,000 BP, close to the Last Glacial Maximum, although some elements lasted until c. 17,000 BP. In Spain and France, it was succeeded by the Solutrean, and developed into or continued as the Epigravettian in Italy, the Balkans, Ukraine and Russia.”
  • Source:
    • “The Pavlovian is an Upper Paleolithic culture, a EASTERN variant of the Gravettian, that existed in the region of Moravia, northern Austria and southern Poland around 29,000–25,000 years BP. The culture used sophisticated stone age technology to survive in the tundra on the fringe of the ice sheets around the Last Glacial Maximum. Its economy was principally based on the hunting of mammoth herds for meat, fat fuel, hides for tents and large bones and tusks for building winter shelters.”
  • Source:
    • ” The Epigravettian emerged after the Last Glacial Maximum around ~21,000 cal. BP or 19,050 BC, and is considered to be a cultural derivative of the Gravettian culture. Initially named Tardigravettian (Late Gravettian)”
  • Source:
    • “The Epigravettian culture was widespread over Central and Eastern Europe between ca. 22 and 12 ka BP at the end of the Pleniglacial. The main habitat was a so-called mammoth steppe, either dry or covered with steppe-forest.”
    • “Mezhyrich is an Epigravettian site with mammoth bone dwellings settled in the Middle Dnieper River Basin in Ukraine. The combustion structures and the archaeological sediments from this site are characterized by the lack of charcoal and the abundance of burnt bones. Recent excavations undertaken in 2006–2008 offered the opportunity to study combustion residues of woods and bones.”
  • Source (Würm glaciation):
    • “The Würm ice age can be dated to about 115,000 to 11,700 years ago. Sources differ about the dates, depending on whether the long transition phases between the glacials and interglacials (warmer periods) are allocated to one or other of those periods. The average annual temperatures during the Würm ice age in the Alpine Foreland were below −3 °C (today +7 °C).”
    • “The corresponding ice age in North and Central Europe is known as the Weichselian glaciation, after the German name for the Vistula river. Despite the global changes in climate that were responsible for the major glaciations cycles, the dating of the Alpine ice sheet advances does not correlate automatically with the farthest extent of the Scandinavian ice sheet.”
    • “The Würm Glacial ended around 11,700 years ago with the beginning of the Holocene. The cold period was followed by another warming which continues today and during which the glaciers are retreating.”

 

22,000 BCE

From 25k BCE till 22k BCE “Y-DNA men like me” remain on lands of modern Austria but they migrated to west, and somewhere at 22k BCE evolved new SNP I-P215 which is considered FIRST SNP which designated Y-DNA men with I2a+ haplogroup (my closer direct paternal Y-DNA haplogroup branch).

BTW also I-M438 also known as one of I2a+ haplogroup defining SNPs.

Somewhere after 22k BCE till 20 BCE they have to step back and again migrate from lands nearby Lienz on lands of modern Austria  they most probably faced with LGM

That is VERY INTERESTING time period, when Globetrekker “Simplify Lines” is DISABLED then you will be able to see this curve migration path AROUND Glacier !!! from east-north via still lands of modern Austria and then to west-north to lands of modern Germany. And that time Y chromosome of “Y-DNA man like me” got mutated and we have an SNP I-CTS2257. It means, that from that time any other children of that man did have the same mutation and spread it in other direction while migration over the Europe. But later on got his own SNP mutations, and so on so forth…

 

 

History notes

  • Source (Austria):
    • “… figurative representations of women, the Venus of Galgenberg found near Stratzing and thought to be 32,000 years old, and the nearby Venus of Willendorf (26,000 years old) found at Willendorf, near Krems an der Donau. In 2005 in the same area, a double infant burial site was discovered at Krems-Wachtberg, dating from Gravettian culture (27,000 years old), the oldest burial ground found in Austria to date”
  • Source:
    • “The 40,000-year-old Löwenmensch figurine represents the oldest uncontested figurative work of art and the 35,000-year-old Venus of Hohle Fels has been asserted as the oldest uncontested object of human figurative art ever discovered. These artefacts are attributed to the Aurignacian culture.”
  • Source (Germany):
    • “~23,000 BP. The Venus of Willendorf is made.”
      • Source: “The figure itself is estimated to have been left in the ground around 25,000 years ago, based on radiocarbon dates from the layers surrounding it.”

 

 

20,000 BCE

In nearly 1000 years, from 21k BCE to 20k BCE there was small time period between next SNP I-L460 (I2a+) evolved in Y chromosome. Somewhere at that time era in Europe was considered as Paleolithic to begin.

It was west-directed migration but short because after 20k BCE, when LGM was advanced by its maximum “Y-DNA men like me” had to migrate again now a bit north way.

And that was huge way in 1200 km to another SNP mutated in “Y-DNA me like me” to I-P37 (I2a+) somewhere near 18k BCE (paleolithic era). But look how magnificent their migration path was:

Glacier still remained between 20k BCE and 18k BCE and men migrated around it, from lands in Germany, AGAIN back to lands in Austria (they should recognize now those lands because it might have been their known locations since 22k BCE, like literally 2000 years ago at that time, IMAGINE 2 millennia time difference) and then to NEW LANDS of modern Italy. It’s all AROUND Alps, which gives a feeling, like those “Y-DNA like me” KNEW that something good is on mountains, but glacier stopped them, and they wandering around glacier/mountains, but could enter the top of mountains/glacier. But interesting, that if to believe this map “Y-DNA men like me” returned. maybe those men didn’t know were the actually going 🙂 – they were wandering around Alps 🙂 . This discovery is for me VERY INTERESTING in July 2023. 🙂

BTW. If you ENABLE “Simplify lines” you will NOT see this “curve caveat” and line will be straight through the Alps.Look, how MISLEADING it is:

So, use it WITH CAUTION !!! 🙂

 

History notes

  • Source:
    • “The period may be subdivided into Early, Middle and Late Epipalaeolithic: The Early Epipalaeolithic corresponds to the Kebaran culture, c. 20,000 to 14,500 years ago, the Middle Epipalaeolithic is the Geometric Kebaran or late phase of the Kebaran, and the Late Epipalaeolithic to the Natufian, 14,500–11,500 BP. The Natufian overlaps with the incipient Neolithic Revolution, the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A.”
  • Source:
    • “Around 19,000 BC, Europe witnesses the appearance of a new culture, known as Magdalenian, possibly rooted in the old Aurignacian one, which soon superseded the Solutrean area and also the Gravettian of Central Europe. However, in Mediterranean Iberia, Italy, the Balkans and Anatolia, epi-Gravettian cultures continued to evolve locally.”

 

 

18,000 BCE

Yes, it’s time of SNP I-P37 (I2a+) evolving in Y chromosomes at that time male inhabitants of Italy lands. It was somewhere at the end of Paleolithic era (according to SNP Tracker). And if to follow data on Globetrekker map then I-P37 is put on the very border between lands of modern Italy and France. And in upcoming 1000 years it hints us about yet another SNP mutation – I-M423 (I2a+) and that time is considered a Mesolithic era (at least according SNP Tracker).

 

Look, they AGAIN wanted to go westwards, but had to tun south and wander around glacier to next south France lands. Globetrekker map clearly shows that the Alps were colder and people were migrating around the Alps again and again.

 

History notes

 

 

15,000 BCE

 

“Y-DNA men like me” in next 5000 years (from 17k to 13k BCE) most probably migrated around “Massif Central” mountains in south France but then turned north, via central France to north France and somewhere at 13k BCE (SNP mutation I-S2770 (I2a+) hints us) ended up on lands close to modern Belgium and Luxembourg.

 

From 13k BCE to 12k BCE, in next 1000 years new SNP evolved in Y chromosome of “Y-DNA man like me” and it is sign for us, that they started migration back towards central France. But why?

Why at around 12500 BCE would they decided to U-turn? And relocated area is NOT so far – 69km. Comparing now, 2023 year I could say that “my 10k years old male cousins” decided to migrate from Luxembourg lands back to France lands… but France was NOT their next stop 🙂

BEFORE WE CONTINUE…

Here is a place to remember about Loschbour Man and my article “How I met my 8000 y.o cousin?” who lived around 6000 BCE (rounded year according to FTDNA Discover I-V4921) whose closest SNP is I-V4921 and nearest parent SNP is I-S2770 (13k BCE) – same level as I-M423 (yfull).

Location for I-CTS11030 (I2a+) is VERY speculative and assumptive, but still, Globetrekker map put marker somewhere at 12k BCE on lands of modern France between Ardennes, Meuse and not far to Luxembourg. And that SNP is closest direct parent SNP for so called Kendrick Man (10k BCE from Wales) – FTDNA Discover page.

 

History notes

  • Source:
    • “In the territory now covered by the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, there is evidence of primitive inhabitants dating back to the Paleolithic or Old Stone Age over 35,000 years ago. The oldest artifacts from this period are decorated bones found at Oetrange.”
    • “However, the first real evidence of civilisation is from the Neolithic or 5th millennium BC, from which evidence of houses has been found. Traces have been found in the south of Luxembourg at Grevenmacher, Diekirch, Aspelt and Weiler-la-Tour“
    • “What is present-day Luxembourg, was inhabited by Celts during the Iron Age (from roughly 600 BC until 100 AD). The Gaulish tribe in what is present-day Luxembourg during and after the La Tène period was known as the Treveri; they reached the height of prosperity in the 1st century BC.”
  • Source:
    • “In Western Europe, the Early Mesolithic, or Azilian, began about 14,000 years ago, in the Franco-Cantabrian region of northern Spain and southern France.”

 

 

 

10,000 BCE

From 12k BCE till 10k BCE in 2000 years timeline “Y-DNA men like me” were migrating from lands of modern France to lands Baden-Württemberg in modern Germany where SNP I-CTS5375 (I2a+) in Y chromosome hints us about time and location.

Note. The word “migration” may be NOT fully correct here, because 400 km maybe is too small distance for 2000 years timeline for SNP mutation. I assume Globetrekker and FTDNA in general will find out additional SNP branches in nearest 10 years…

Anyhow, for “Y-DNA men like me” descendants it was second time when they leaned towards Germany lands again, where their Y-DNA ancestors were 10,000 years ago – huge time period wandering around glacier to say that the returned to the Homeland.

But this time, “Y-DNA men like me” also migrated to east lands of modern Germany, close to lands very close to modern Czechia.

 

Me: Although FTDNA Globetrekker provides a corridor (blue colored) for migration paths, interesting observation that the route from CTS5375 to CTS7213 looks very paralel to Danube river which is a bit south from rednered migration route.

map source:

<img data-attachment-id="6433" data-permalink="https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2023/08/07/from-ydna-adam-to-andrii-haplogroup-i2a-globetrekker/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river/#main" data-orig-file="https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg" data-orig-size="684,480" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta='{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"1"}' data-image-title="southern_Germany_accent_on_Danube_river" data-image-description="

https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/germany_map.htm

” data-image-caption=”” data-medium-file=”https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=300″ data-large-file=”https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=684″ class=”wp-image-6433 ” src=”https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=248&h=174″ alt=”” width=”248″ height=”174″ srcset=”https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=248&h=174 248w, https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=496&h=348 496w, https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=150&h=105 150w, https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/southern_germany_accent_on_danube_river.jpg?w=300&h=211 300w” sizes=”(max-width: 248px) 100vw, 248px”>

I assume FTDNA Globetrekker will add rivers soon. So instead my silly thinking that “Y-DNA like me” knew they go to Czechia, they simply might wandering with water from Danube from place to palce to explore new places. And I assume that line my be changed then which would be reasonable to think that people were living closer to rivers than to mountains. BUT I AM NOT SURE – it’s JUST MY ASSUMPTION (Aug-2023).

Preliminary map piece:

 

And next “jump” was from 8600 BCE to 6400 BCE when “Y-DNA like me” migrated one more time north way towards Sachsen lands of modern Germany but also closer to lands of modern Czechia. SNP I-S10302 (I2a+).

 

History notes

  • Source:
  • Source:
    • “Dark skin in Southern and Western Europe was replaced by a lighter complexion with the influx of lighter-skinned agriculturists from western Anatolia from 8500 to 5000 years ago. The new migrants initiated the Neolithic revolution in Europe, accompanied by a massive increase in population which caused a rapid evolution of European populations towards lighter skin and hair.”
  • Source:

 

5,000 BCE

After 2200 years long migration from north Germany into south direction but still close to Czechia lands “Y-DNA men like me” continued their migration and somewhere 4600 BCE we know Y chromosome got a mutation under name we know I-L621 (I2a+). As Globetrekker map shows those men really liked mountains, and they, AS their ancestors time ago, again wandered around mountains. I don’t know – did they know where they were going? Was at that time bad weather? Or some political issues between tribes? I don’t know.

 

BUT. Globetrekker map shows that “Y-DNA men like me” AGAIN migrated towards Alps and Austria. It’s now FIFTH time “same Y-DNA men like me” visited Alps.

 

Memory note.

Look. How great was their ancestors journey.

  • FIRST time “Y-DNA men like me” ancestors migrated to Alps in Austria (25-22 BCE, I2)
  • SECOND time they tried to migration to another location but still close to Alps from Austria to Italy lands (22-21 BCE, I-CTS2257)
  • THIRD time migration took a place around Alps from Italy lands again though Austria lands to Germany lands (21-20 BCE, I-L460)
  • FORTH time migration took from Germany lands around Alps again back through Austria lands and again through Italy lands but farther, to the border with France (20-18 BCE, I-P37)

And now in 3650 BCE same Y-DNA men (though with new mutation I-S19848, I2a+), MAYBE remembering their ancestors, MAYBE NOT, but they returned AGAIN FIFTH time to Alps. It was NOT long distance from I-L621 to I-S19848, but genetically speaking time difference between those SNPs is 950 years, so it must mean, that migration was LONG in time but short for location change. It’s ONLY my assumption !!!

History notes

  • Source:
    • “The early or earliest Western Linear Pottery culture began conventionally at 5500 BC, possibly as early as 5700 BC, developed on the middle Danube, including western Hungary, and was carried down the Rhine, Elbe, Oder, and Vistula.”
  • Source:
  • Source:
    • “During the 4th millennium BC, the Uralic-speaking peoples who were living in the central and southern regions of the Urals split up. Some dispersed towards the west and northwest and came into contact with Turkic and Iranian speakers who were spreading northwards. From at least 2000 BC onwards, the Ugric-speakers became distinguished from the rest of the Uralic community, of which the ancestors of the Magyars, being located farther south, were the most numerous.”
  • Source (I-M438):
    • “It is considered that I-L621 could have been present in the Cucuteni–Trypillia culture, but until now was mainly found G2a and non-I2-L621 clades, and another clade I2a1a1-CTS595 was present in the Baden culture of the Chalcolithic Carpathian Basin”

 

3,500 BCE

3.5k BCE, it’s early Mesolithic era in Europe. After I-S19848 (I2a+) SNP mutation it’s time for new mutation I-CTS4002 (I2a+), which happens somewhere close to Kärnten (Carinthia) in Austria.

It was not much of time change (just 200 years) and not long in distance (just 400 km) so we can assume it was short migration of relatively close “Y-DNA men like me” still among Austria lands.

But what is important to realize, and we can easily observe it on FTDNA Discover Globetrekker map that “Y-DMA men like me” started a new migration journey to the Balkans.

 

History notes

  • to compare with Middle East – Source:
    • “Living along the valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, Sumerian farmers grew an abundance of grain and other crops, the surplus from which enabled them to form urban settlements. Proto-writing dates back to c. 4000 – c. 2500 BC. The earliest texts come from the cities of Uruk and Jemdet Nasr, and date to between c. 3350 – c. 2500 BC.”
  • to compare with Middle East – Source:
  • Source (Alps):
  • Source:
  • Source (Germany):
    • “The Hallstatt culture, which had developed from the Urnfield culture, was the predominant Western and Central European culture from the 12th to 8th centuries BC and during the early Iron Age (8th to 6th centuries BC). It was followed by the La Tène culture (5th to 1st centuries BC). The people who had adopted these cultural characteristics in central and southern Germany are regarded as Celts. How and if the Celts are related to the Urnfield culture remains disputed. However, Celtic cultural centres developed in central Europe during the late Bronze Age (circa 1200 BC until 700 BC).”

 

1,200 BCE – I-CTS10228 (I-CTS5996)

After 2250 years of migration from south Austria, SNP mutation at somewhere 1200 BCE I-CTS10228 (I2a+) is put so far by Globetrekker on lands of modern Romania. But migration path goes through lands in Slovenia, and if map is precise as it shown, migration partially was on Hungary lands and partially Croatia lands and then a bit lands from Serbia and for potentially settled for longer time in lands of modern Romania, not far from border and lands of modern Serbia and Hungary.

I know, algorithms, but back in 2014-2015 I was in doubt on how far they migrated to the Balkans, because it was always a mystery for me.

VERY INTERESTING is a migration path from I-CTS10228 (1200 BCE). Quote:

“lineage branched off from Kopparsvik 161’s lineage around 1200 BCE when two sons of I-CTS10228 went separate ways.”

I still can’t simply grasp how was it possible to get VK53 aka Kopparsvik 161 to Sweden, Gotland. That one Goth/Gute must have migrated as outlier from Hungarian lands or somehow. Here is my article about VK53 aka Kopparsvik 161 (June-2023). Globetrekker not only shows my direct paternal Y-DNA line, but also help me to visualize how other lines were migrating, how other branches started their own journeys.

 

Jul-31-2023 version:

Aug-05-2023 version:

  • Jul-31: Lands from Denmark to south Sweden including Öland island and a bit of sea lands near Gotland were depicted on old version
  • Aug-05: And now it does NOT show coastal islands and sea “lands” and Denmark and depicts ONLY part of south mainland Sweden.
  • Aug-05: Now it takes more lands from Lithuania, whole kaliningrad (Królewiec) and shifts towards Baltic sea north upwards from Poland.

Note. looks like Globetrekker is IN VERY PROGRESS of changing algorithms and maps DATA is different between a few days.

 

History notes

  • Source:
    • The traditional “Celtic from the East” theory, says the proto-Celtic language arose in the late Bronze Age Urnfield culture of central Europe, named after grave sites in southern Germany, which flourished from around 1200 BC. This theory links the Celts with the Iron Age Hallstatt culture which followed it (c. 1200–500 BC), named for the rich grave finds in Hallstatt, Austria, and with the following La Tène culture (c. 450 BC onward), named after the La Tène site in Switzerland. It proposes that Celtic culture spread westward and southward from these areas by diffusion or migration.
  • Source:
    • The Scythians or Scyths and sometimes also referred to as the Pontic Scythians, were an ancient Eastern Iranic equestrian nomadic people who had migrated during the 9th to 8th centuries BC from Central Asia to the Pontic Steppe in modern-day Ukraine and Southern Russia, where they remained established from the 7th century BC until the 3rd century BC.
  • Source:
    • The exact origin of Thracians is unknown, but it is believed that proto-Thracians descended from a purported mixture of Proto-Indo-Europeans and Early European Farmers, arriving from the rest of Asia and Africa through the Asia Minor (Anatolia). The proto-Thracian culture developed also into the Getae and the Dacians, also several other smaller Thracian tribes. Writing in the sixth century BC, Xenophanes described Thracians as “blue-eyed and red-haired”
  • Source:
    • The Getae or Gets were a Thracian-related tribe that once inhabited the regions to either side of the Lower Danube, in what is today northern Bulgaria and southern Romania. Both the singular form Get and plural Getae may be derived from a Greek exonym: the area was the hinterland of Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast, bringing the Getae into contact with the ancient Greeks from an early date. Although it is believed that the Getae were related to their westward neighbours, the Dacians, several scholars, especially in the Romanian historiography, posit that the Getae and the Dacians were the same people.
    • From the 7th century BC onwards, the Getae came into economic and cultural contact with the Greeks , who were establishing colonies on the western side of Pontus Euxinus, nowadays the Black Sea.
  • Source (I-M438):
    • “… the distribution of ancestral subclades like of I-CTS10228 among contemporary carriers indicates a rapid expansion from Southeastern Poland, is mainly related to the Slavs and their medieval migration, and the “largest demographic explosion occurred in the Balkans“”

 

400 BCE – I-S20602 (I-Y3120)

OK, and then a bit later 400 BCE new SNP evolved – I-S20602 (I2a+).

FTDNA Discover says that:

“lineage branched off from Karos 2-16‘s lineage around 400 BCE when two sons of I-S20602 went separate ways.”

It then explains, why I-S20602 descendants are so spread across Europe.

 

FTDNA Discover Globetrekker also shows sub branches under I-S20602 and it represents those parallel branches and so that we can trace their own migration journeys.

 

Under I-S20602 we have a few sub-branches which is a variety of “Y-DNA men like me”.

  • I-FT80992 is a Martin Luther branch (from Romania, to Austria and then to Germany). Here is my article about Martin Luther and myself (2019).
  • I-Y18331 predominantly now are Y-DNA men from Greece.
  • I-Y3548 is important parent SNP for many for Poland and Balkans, especially sub branches I-PH908 and I-Y4882.
    • Under that branch is also one known ancient DNA from Krakow in Poland. My article about “Kraków Zakrzówek 24” is here.
    • And also ancient DNA KRA008 (Krakauer Berg) from Germany (I plan to visit in Sep-2023).
    • And also a few ancient DNA samples from Pohansko in Czechia (I plan to visit in Sep-2023).
  • I-Z17855 yet another widely spread SNP on Balkans
  • And my direct branch I-Y4460 (250 BCE) which migrated from lands of Romania via Hungary to Slovakia a bit of Poland and then Ukraine.

 

 

History notes

  • Source (Alps):
    • “Between 430 and 400 BC prolonged warfare in the Alps resulted in the devastation of agricultural land and human settlements, ultimately triggering the enslavement of men, women, and children, goods had to be imported as a result.”
    • ” The Etruscan civilization responded to raids by the Massalia and acquired absolute control over the Alpine trade routes. Aggressors in modern-day Italy were dealt with and an alliance was formed with the Celts. The grip of the Etruscan settlements broke down, as the Roman political system expanded, so as to take control over Alpine trade routes that connected human settlements in the Alps with settlements in the Mediterranean.”
      • My thought: it might explain why some Dinarics, when they faced many kinds of problems being nearby Alps, decided to migrate from Alps to Balkans.
  • Source (I-M438):
    • “I-CTS10228 and I-Y3120 subclades were found in two Viking samples from Sweden (VK53) and Ukraine (VK542) with predominantly Slavic ancestry of which the second belongs to Gleb Svyatoslavich (11th century).”

 

 

250 BCE – I-Y4460

300 BCE and “Y-DNA men like me” migrated from Romania lands via Hungary lands to lands of modern Slovakia and actually it was FIRST time they as “descendants of their Y-DNA men ancestors” returned back to lands of modern Poland and Ukraine, where their male ancestors were almost on same lands here in 34-30k BCE.

And this way new SNP evolved I-Y4460 (I2a+) around 250 BCE and so far settled on lands of modern Ukraine. FTDNA puts map marker somewhere between Pecheniya, Pid’yarkiv and Kurovychi.

Note. Previously assumed that I-Y4460 was evolved initially from lands of modern Poland, in particular Lesser Poland, but looking to Globetrekker map we can assume, that people who were in Poland lands they didn’t have SNP I-Y4460 mutation yet till some time, and earliest found in Ukraine.

BTW, migration path on Globetrekker map goes from Hungary to Slovakia not far from Karos location (near Miskolc, Borsod-Abuj-Zemplen county in north Hungary)

 

According to FTDNA I-S20602 SNP designates an ancient DNA sample from Karos in Hungary (assumable someone from Arpads military men) also is defined by I-S20602 and here is my article. In Aug-2022 I visited Karos. Although YFULL defines Karos DNA sample by I-B57 SNP (which is under I-Y4460).

According to FTDNA I-S20602 SNP is designated by FTDNA for Gleb Svyatoslavich aka VK542 from Ukraine – I wrote an article about my research details.
Although YFULL defines Gleb’s DNA sample by I-Y91535 (which is sub branch under I-Y3106).

 

 

Worth mentioning here also, that genetically I2a Y-DNA haplogroup members are called as Dinarics and under I-S20602 SNP there is split into at least two groups: Dinarics North and Dinarics South. I belong to I-Y4460 which is Dinarics North and many Balkans Y-DNA men are considered as Dinarics South.

Now, if we look to Globetrekker migration map it becomes clear now why one Dinarics, who were as their original at North from the beginning, migrated to South and remain there but some Dinarics returned back to North lands. That is why we have so mixed up between Ukraine, Poland and Balkans which complicates classifications of SNPs.

 

History, race and geography notes

  • Source:
    • “The Dinaric Alps, also Dinarides, are a mountain range in Southern and Southcentral Europe, separating the continental Balkan Peninsula from the Adriatic Sea. They stretch from Italy in the northwest through Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, and Kosovo to Albania in the southeast.”
    • “The Dinarides are named after Mount Dinara (1,831 m), a prominent peak in the center of the mountain range on the border with the Dalmatian part of Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.”
  • Source:
  • Source:
    • “Several theories were advanced regarding the genesis of the Dinaric race. Most researchers agreed that this race was autochthonous to its present habitat from the Neolithic period. Both Günther and Coon claimed that the Bell-Beaker people of the European Bronze Age were at least partially Dinaric.”
    • “According to the Dinaric model, Dinarics were to be found mainly in the mountainous areas of southeastern Europe: Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Austria, Albania, part of northwestern Bulgaria, and northwestern Northern Macedonia. Northern and eastern Italy was considered mostly a Dinaric area as well as western Greece, Romania, Moldova, western Ukraine, southeastern German-speaking areas, and parts of southeastern France”.
    • “The Dinaric type is characterized by quite light skin, dark hair from dark brown to dark blonde, and a wide range of eye color; tall stature, a brachycephalic skull, long face, a very narrow and prominent nose, sometimes aquiline; a slender body type, and very big feet.”
    • “The “Noric race” was supposed to be a sub-type of the Dinaric race more Nordic in appearance than standard Dinaric peoples. The term derived from Noricum, a province of the Roman Empire roughly equivalent to southern Austria and northern Slovenia. The term is not to be confused with Nordic.”
    • “Norics were characterized by tall stature, brachycephaly, nasal convexity, long face and broad forehead. Their complexion was said to be light, and blondness combined with light eyes to be their anthropologic characteristic.”
  • Source:
  • Source:
    • “Peoples belonging to numerous archeological cultures identified with Celtic, Germanic, Baltic, and in some regions Slavic tribes inhabited parts of Poland during the era of classical antiquity, from about 400 BC to 450-500 AD.”
    • “Celtic peoples established settlements beginning in the early 4th century BC, mostly in southern Poland, the outer limit of their expansion, as representatives of the La Tène culture.”
    • “Slavic peoples may have lived in the southern and southeastern regions, some perhaps associated with the ancient Przeworsk and Zarubintsy cultures of the 3rd century BC“
    • “The period from 200 to 0 BC may also be considered a younger pre-Roman period. It was followed by a period of Roman influence whose early stage lasted from c. 0 to 150 AD and its later stage from c. 150 to 375 AD. The period from 375 to 500 AD constitutes the (pre-Slavic) Migration Period.”
  • Source:
    • “Affiliated with the Celto-Ligurian Taurini, the Taurisci settled on the upper Sava river after their defeat at the Battle of Telamon in 225 BC. Following in the wake of the Boii, they migrated to northern Italia and the Adriatic coast.”
    • “Teurisci, attested by Ptolemy in Dacia, were originally a group of the Celtic Taurisci from the Austrian Alps established in North-Western Dacia at the end of Iron Age.”

 

 

~230 BCE  – here should be some info about I-B57

Despite the fact FTDNA does have information about I-B57 SNP, FTDNA doesn’t represent it on Discover feature.

By FTDNA basic Y-DNA tests results I am designated as “presumably positive”:

And FTDNA Big Y Block tree also represents B57 as parallel SNP nearby Y3106.

It should be somewhere between 250 BCE and 200 BCE, because according to YFULL it’s a sub-branch under Y4460 but is parent branch for Y3106.

Here is YFULL data:

And as you see, by SNP I-B57 is designated Karos ancient DNA sample #52.

INTERESTING that FTDNA says:

“lineage branched off from Magyarhomorog 4‘s lineage I-FT108909 around 200 BCE when two sons of I-Y3106 went separate ways.”

And because I-Y3106 is shown as location in Ukraine, it may hint us that MAYBE I-Y3106 wasn’t entirely in Ukraine but maybe somewhere in Hungary or Carpathians (I assume it because Magyarhomorog is an ancient DNA sample). Not sure.

MAYBE if FTDNA would represent info about parent SNP I-B57 it would  MAYBE clear this Hungary/Romania, Karos/Magyarhomorog back-migration.

I hope 2024 year will bring us more DNA samples and scientific news for this SNP 🙂

about my Karos cousin in my article.

 

History notes

  • Source (about prehistoric Slovakia):
    • “In the Early Iron Age the richness and the diversity of tombs increased considerably with the development of the Hallstatt culture. The inhabitants of the area manufactured arms, shields, jewelry, dishes, and statues. The arrival of tribes from Thrace disrupted the people of the Calenderberg culture, who lived in the hamlets located on the plain (Sereď), and also in the hill forts located on the summits (Smolenice, Molpí). The local power of the Hallstatt “Princes” disappeared in Slovakia during the last period of the Iron Age after strife between the Scytho-Thracian people and Celtic tribes who advanced from the south towards the north, following the Slovak rivers.” – I think it reflects the migration from I-S20602 to I-Y4460 via Hungary and Slovakia lands to Poland lands.
  • Source (Poland):
    • “… according to other archaeological and linguistic research, early Slavic peoples were likely present in parts of Poland much earlier, and may have been associated with the ancient Przeworsk and Zarubintsy cultures of the 3rd century BC, though some Slavic groups may have arrived from the east in later periods”

 

200 BCE – I-Y3106

Next migration or diffusion among culture we can assume was somewhere 200 BCE, where I-Y3106 (I2a+, 200 BCE) SNP evolved in Y chromosome of “Y-DNA men like me”.

Both SNP I-Y4460 and I-Y3106 put by FTDNA Globetrekker in Lviv region (since Aug-04-2023) which is very west region of Ukraine bordering with Poland.

FTDNA GLobetrekker SNP I-Y3106 marker (since Aug-04-2023) is put somewhere between Busk, Radekhiv and Brody which is all still Lviv region but closer to Volyn‘ and Rivne regions.

And in particular I-FT78951 (~1 BCE, NOT my direct line) branch which MAY be related to all those ancient DNA samples discovered in Hungary and Romania (back to I-S20602 lands) and I-Y47356 (200 CE) which spread towards Hungary and Romania. YES – FROM UKRAINE LANDS BACK TO BALKANS again – that could have been people from White Croats tribe.

 

History notes

 

 

50 BCE – I-FT10545 (I-Z16973)

“My people”, “Y-DNA men like me” descendants of I-B57 and in particular descendants of I-Y3106 EVOLVED into the new branch, which is designated by SNP I-FT10545 (50 BCE). Migration math goes from west Ukraine though THE VERY SAME lands as in 39-33k BCE – border lands between Belarus, Ukraine and Poland. And FTDNA Discover Globetrekker map in its turn puts a marker for SNP I-FT10545 on lands of modern Poland, a bit northward from Lublin, somewhere nearby Lubartów.

 

What is interesting about SNP I-FT10545 that its descendants (BESIDES ME) were migrated towards Poland and EVEN Sweden 🙂

I assume, it might be related soon in future somehow with Gotland and DNA samples from Kopparsvik (because at the moment that DNA sample is designated by I-CTS10228 ONLY). And also, by YFULL Gleb Svyatoslavich is designated by SNP I-Y91535, which is sub-branch under I-FT10545.

 

I-FT10545 => I-Y91535 (300 CE) is Gleb Svyatoslavich (according to YFULL). about Gleb in my article.

 

 

History notes

  • Source: “Dacia was the land inhabited by the Dacians, its core in Transylvania, stretching to the Danube in the south, the Black Sea in the east, and the Tisza in the west. The Carpathian Mountains were located in the middle of Dacia. It thus roughly corresponds to the present-day countries of Romania, as well as parts of Moldova, Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia, and Ukraine. A Dacian kingdom of variable size existed between 82 BC until the Roman conquest in AD 106, reaching its height under King Burebista.”
    • Me: I assume that Daco-Romanian people from Dacia were very probable migrants with I-S20602 (400 BCE) SNP in their blod (Y chromosome) who migrated to Slovakia/Poland/Ukraine/Belarus (50 BCE – 400 CE).
  • Source (Facebook): “A map illustrating the territorial extent and political boundaries of the Roman Empire during the Flavian Dynasty, around 96 CE. Although a short-lived sequence of reigns from Vespasian (69 – 79 CE) through Titus (79 – 81 CE), until Domitian (81 – 96 CE), the Flavians (an Italian gentry, and not traditional Roman aristocracy) are remembered for restoring stability to Rome after the turbulent reign of the last Julio-Claudian – Nero, and the civil wars that had wreaked havoc on the Empire and Italy in particular. “
    • Me: Dacia Kingdom is shown as separate from whole Roman empire.
  • Source (Poland):
    • “It has been suggested that the early Slavic peoples and languages may have originated in the region of Polesia, which includes the area around the Belarus–Ukraine border, parts of Western Russia, and parts of far Eastern Poland”

 

 

 

50 CE – I-FT9301

Between 50 BCE and 50 CE, Jesus was born (according to Bible), was prepared to die, and died 🙂 while “Y DNA men like me” as my parental ancestors were somewhere between lands of modern east Poland, and west-south Belarus and north-west Ukraine slowing down their migration journey. For some reason they actually RETURNED to the lands of their male parental ancestors from 34k BCE times. INCREDIBLE discovery thankfully to Globetrekker…

 

I-FT10545 => I-FT9301 (50 CE) – is MY DIRECT PATERNAL SNP haplogroup branch, so based on above, Gleb Svyatoslavich is my closest Y-DNA ancient cousin 🙂

 

History notes

  • Source (Poland):
  • Source (White Croats):
    • “Antes were Slavic people who lived in that area and to the West between Dniester and Dnieper from the 4th until the 7th century. Some think that the Croats were part of the Antes tribal polity who migrated to Galicia in the 3rd–4th century, under pressure by invading Huns and Goths. Others related them to the early Sclaveni or saw them as a mixture of both Antes and Sclaveni. In a similar fashion, regardless of Iranian or Slavic etymology of their name, Henryk Łowmiański argued that the tribe was formed by the end of the 3rd and not later than the 5th century in Lesser Poland, during the peak of the Huns and their leader Attila, but such localization is historiographically and archaeologically unproven and could only have been in Prykarpattia (Western Ukraine). They probably formed around late 4th and first half of the 5th century. It is considered that they probably were one of oldest and largest Slavic tribal formations until 6th century.”
    • “There is a dispute among Slavic scholars as to whether the Croats were of Irano-Alanic, West Slavic, or East Slavic origin. Whether the early Croats were Slavs who had taken a name of Iranian origin, or whether they were ruled by a Sarmatian elite and were Slavicized Sarmatians, cannot be resolved, but is considered that they arrived as Slavic people when entered the Balkans.”
  • Source (White Croatia):
    • “Some historians believe that, after the migration of the White Croats in the 6th-7th century, their former homeland gradually lost its primacy and was influenced by other Slavic peoples, such as Ukrainians, Poles and Czechs. Others say there was never a distinct polity known as Great or White Croatia.”

 

400 CE, I-FGC63213 (I-Y128456)

After 50 CE “Y-DNA men like me” decided to go towards north, and started new 200 km migration journey towards lands of modern west Belarus.

Note. Globetrekker shows word Brest on the map, but it depicts a region of Brest, not exact location of city. And if we follow blue/red line of the migration path and compare with the real map, we can assume that path went through or nearby Brest city.

And then MY TERMINAL SNP I-FGC63213 (400 CE) “settles” or is put by FTDNA Discover Globetrekker in a location from modern lands of Poland:

Exact location is obviously matter of time and FTDNA algorithms, but for now (Aug-2023) it’s somewhere between Dubicze Cerkiewne and Pasieczniki Duże, which is not far from Hajnówka.

Google map link. Snapshot: Aug-2023

I’m surprisingly happy because in Hajnówka there are many people with surname LUNDA which was one of old forms before LUNDIAK in Ukraine, 1850 year). That is nice discovery 🙂 thankfully Globetrekker.

And looking to map, from presumable location of SNP I-FGC63213 to my MRCA location is around 550 km:

Worth mentioning that by this path, there is town Chełm in nowadays Poland.

History and geography notes

 

BTW. I visited Chełm in 2017 to see how archeological excavation going on. There are a few men skeleton, which could be tested in future, and MAYBE there will be new Ancient DNA with Y-DNA haplogroup I2a+. MAYBE. Here is my article on another blog about that trip, language Ukrainian. It’s assumed that Danylo Romanovych is buried in Chełm and also potentially one of his sons (Roman or Shvarno). That is ongoing research though…

 

And then, after 400 CE and before at least 1700 AD follows an informational gap, when not much of information but I can assume many things.

 

 

Globetrekker upgrades

Since July 31 and now Aug 06, I realised that Globetrekker got UPDATED on Friday Aug 04 (and it seems to be constant weekly every-Friday releases in future).

1) I-CTS10228

  • Lands from Denmark to south Sweden including Öland island and a bit of sea lands near Gotland were depicted on old version
  • And now it does NOT show coastal islands and sea “lands” and Denmark and depicts ONLY part of south mainland Sweden.
  • Now it takes more lands from Lithuania, whole kaliningrad (Królewiec) and shifts towards Baltic sea north upwards from Poland.
I know, that Y-DNA sample from Gotland is in FTDNA database and that man is designated by I-CTS10228 but why Globetrekker decided to NOT show?
I sure do not grasp how proto-Romanian or proto-Hungarian YDNA men migrated via central Europe to Scandinavia. But would be silly to lose that data on map.

2) I-S20602. Migration path was smoother, it went via Arad location in Romania and then towards Karos in Hungary. Now it returns back to location of I-CTS10228 and THEN goes towards Karos in Hungary…

3) I-Y4460 map marker was put in Ternopil region, closer to Rivne region. And now it’s in Lviv region, but still north and also close to Rivne region and now to Volyn region.

4) I-Y3106 map marker was put in Rivne region. And now it’s in Lviv region of Ukraine. It’s relatively very close locations, and mean would somewhere in between, and from bigger picture it’s NOT really visible.

5) I-FT10545 shifted more towards central Poland.

6) I-FT9301 remain almost the same but a bit north towards Belarus from actual “border point of 3 countries”.

 

Globetrekker recap

This is just a short outcome about how many times migration took a place at the same territories (data as of Aug-07-2023):

  • at least 6 times wandered around Alps (if we count numbe of time chunks between SNPs mutations)
  • lands of modern Austria: 6 times
  • lands of modern Poland: 4 times
  • lands of modern Ukraine: 3 times (39-32k BCE, 400-250 BCE, 20-50 BCE)
  • lands of modern Belarus: 2 times
  • lands of modern Germany lands: 2 times
  • lands of modern Italy: 2 times
  • lands of modern Slovenia: 2 times
  • lands of modern France: 2 times
    • (maybe I-P37 location will be changed with time from very close to France to actual France – TBD, but for now it’s inside of Italy lands)
    • (if to consider returning from short period on Luxembourg lands back to north France lands)
  • lands of modern Luxembourg: 1 time
  • lands of modern Czechia: 1 time
  • lands of modern Hungary: 2 times
    • Maybe migration path will be changed in future and that route from Slovenia via Croatia will be more as via Hungary, then 1 more time this country then can be added.
  • lands of modern Croatia: 1 time (very little location area close to Hungary)
  • lands of modern Serbia: 1 time
  • lands of modern Romania: 1 time
  • lands of modern Slovakia: 1 time

 

Globetrekker NEW discoveries for me

  • I realized more granular “Y-DNA men like me” migration path – from Anatolia to Ukraine (39k BCE – 32k BCE) and then wandered around Alps within central Europe (32k BCE – 3.4k BCE) and ONLY then migrated to south Europe (3.4k BCE – 400 BCE) and then surprisingly for me migration path took direction towards east Europe (400 BCE – 400 CE).
  • Glacier timeline (30k – 20k BCE) and how Ice Age influenced on “Y-DNA men like me” migration routes.
  • Discovered that even FTDNA basic migration map and Discover migration map oversimplify migration path from I-M170 (25k BCE) to I-P37 (18k BCE) by drawing direct straight line, and Globetrekker shows how “curve” migration actually was around Alps a few times.
  • I-P37 SNP (18k BCE) was primarily related/connected to Sardinia people, and long time I’ve been mentally connecting myself with very ancient Sardinia men. But now, Globetrekker map helps me to realize it was a sub branch split after I-P37 from Italy/France migration times when “Y-DNA men like me” escaped glacier and that is why that island got so many “old SNP” and evolved ONLY on the Sardinia island.
  • I knew that there were France, Germany and Austria migrations. But I hadn’t actually realized before when I got my Y-DNA tests results first that migration path was very close from Germany to Czechia around 10k BCE to 6.4k BCE. And Globetrekker visualize even small SNP mutations which hints us about location and time.
  • And finally migration (1200k BCE to 400 CE)  from Daco-Romanian lands towards Carpathians, where my ancestors born, now is MUCH clearer than it was in early 2014/2015.
  • Between 50 BCE and 50 CE when Jesus was born and died my Y-DNA men were wandering somewhere nearby Poland/Belarus/Ukraine borders.

 

About MRCA time vs SNP age

NOT SURE yet, but I have a feeling, and it might be correct to assume based on SNP age assumtions techniques. If we consider MRCA year then SNP age will b ALWAYS older. And tracing SNP locations and years I have feeling, that there is shift between SNP age and actuall year of that person born/living/deadth. For example:

  • me, born 1982 AD, but my closest Y-DNA SNP age so far ~400 AD, and I provided MRCA time as 1780 AD year. So shift is at least 1380 years (1780-400).
    • FTDNA presnt-day testers “similar to me” provided their MRCA: 1880, 1913. Then our average MRCA time would be: 1857 year. And then shift would be: 1457 years.
  • Martin Luther. Born 1483 but FTDNA defines him by SNP I-FT80992 which is ~1 BCE by age. Shift = 1484 years.
  • Gleb Sviatoslavich (VK542 from Margaryan et al. 2020), born around 1051/2 AD but FTDNA defines him by SNP I-S20602 with age 400 BCE. Shift then is around 1452 years.
    • Although YFULL defines Gleb by MUCH younger SNP I-Y91535 => 23 BCE (then shift would be 1028 years).
  • Let’s assume that avg. born/death age of Karos ancient DNA samples (K2-16, K2-52, K3-12) is 900 AD, and all are defined by SNP I-S20602 (400 BCE) then shift would be 1300 years.
    • Although, YFULL defines Karos K-52 by I-B57 SNP (250-200 BCE). Then shift would be: 1140 years

Basic math: 1380 + 1452 + 1484 + 1300 / 3 = avg. 1405 years.

And my point is:

When we trace Globetrekker locations and ages/years/time we always have to remember that actual men were much younger in comparison with  their teriminl SNP age. For the simplicity I assume at least ONE millennium difference.

That is why I provide a history motes in this article for my self to be “somewhere in the middle” when I assume something.

My 1st assumption: Wikipedia states a La Tène culture (450 BCE – 100 BCE) people migration from Dacia lands to Slovakia/Poland/Ukraine lands and it kinda mirrors I-S20602 (400 BCE) change to mutation I-Y4460 (250 BCE). So shift here (if my “shift” assumption make even sense) would be around 100-150 years.

My 2nd assumption: because I know history of Danylo Romanovych (1201-1264) and his “kinda migration” from Hungarian lands via Carpathians towards Chelm (close to Poland/Ukraine/Belarus) it reminds me SNP mutations change from I-Y4460 (250 BCE) to I-FT10545 (50 BCE) and then back to I-FT9301 (50 CE). Sure thing I don’t have proof, and it’s low probability that exactly my paternal line was from Romanvocyh men. Even if Danylo’s father (Roman the Great, 1152 – 1205) did have many other Rusyns’s people as helping boyars or just regular people that still is very low probability one of those was my direct ancestor.

 

 

400-500-600 CE  what next SNP?

Besides I-FGC63213 and I-Y128456 there are other SNPs on the similar level which I hope in future will defines us all in more granular way: I-Y128937, I-FT89045, I-BY51714,  I-Y4298 / I-FGC8449, I-BY182167. And I am Y-DNA-positive for all of them.

 

Further history notes

  • Source:
    • “650–969 CE, Khazar Khaganate”
  • Source:
    • “In the 4th and 5th centuries AD, the Hungarians moved to the west of the Ural Mountains, to the area between the southern Ural Mountains and the Volga River, known as Bashkiria (Bashkortostan) and Perm Krai. In the early 8th century, some of the Hungarians moved to the Don River, to an area between the Volga, Don and the Seversky Donets rivers.”
    • “The Hungarians around the Don River were subordinates of the Khazar Khaganate. “
    • “Around 830, a rebellion broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes of the Khazars joined the Hungarians and moved to what the Hungarians call the Etelköz, the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River. The Hungarians faced their first attack by the Pechenegs around 854. The new neighbours of the Hungarians were the Varangians and the eastern Slavs. From 862 onwards, the Hungarians (already referred to as the Ungri) along with their allies, the Kabars, started a series of looting raids from the Etelköz into the Carpathian Basin, mostly against the Eastern Frankish Empire (Germany) and Great Moravia, but also against the Balaton principality and Bulgaria.“

 

Extended ethymological assumtion

I knew about Lengyel culture (5000-4000 BCE) and I knew that in Hungarian it means “Pole/Polish” but didn’t know it’s also location Lengyel – is the highest inhabited village in Tolna County, Hungary.

During working on this article I realzied that in the very east-north Slovenia there is location Lendava (centre of the Hungarian minority), and the town is named after the Ledava River; the original nasal in the name of the river was lost in Slovene, but the n in the name of the town was preserved due to Hungarian influence.

I also knew about Lendians or Łędzianie from Lesser Poland (700-1100 AD).

My surname forms are LUNDA => ŁUNDZIAK => LUNDIAK.

And this all is VERY paralel in time with Y-DNA men like mi migration path from at least I-CTS4002 (4350 BCE) till I-FGC63213 (400 CE).

🙂

 

To conclude this FTDNA Discover Globetrekker article, here is my

2023 year questions:

Which exact way men with Y-DNA SNP I-FGC63213 in their Y chromosome migrated after 400 CE till 1700 AD at least?

Were their ancesteors genetical Dinaric men who migrated from southern Alps to Romania and Hungary?

Ho much o Y-DNA of Dinarics remained in ancestors who later on as Daco-Romanian migrated and then assimilated with local Lendians in Poland?

Or maybe tribes diffusion took place among Lendians and White Croats later in time of Kievan Rus (lands of modern west Ukriane)?

 

I don’t know exact answer, but all what I can do – continue to assume, research, compare 🙂

 

 

Y-DNA SNP present-day users/testers similar to me

I assume that 400-500 CE Y chromosome in one of my Y DNA male parental ancestors got a mutation which now we name as. And his descendants seems to be started migration journey again, because for now I-FGC-63213 is represented by different countries:

 

This is actual beauty of Big Y tests – you made once, and it brings your some results all the time.

And here is PUBLIC available info from FTDNA Discover group pages for the I2a group:

 

So let’s dive deeply in assumptions 🙂

  1. LUNDA “Y-DNA man like me”, MY DIRECT male ANCESTOR returned back from Belarus/Poland lands back to west Ukraine, closer to Carpathians in particular Prykarpattia (Western Ukraine), which eventually brought my closest MRCA Johannes Lundiak who was born c. 1780 AD most probably in village Markova near and later on his migration was to almost neighboring village Molodkiv. Both villages are not so far from Solotvyn, Nadvirna, Bohorodchany and Ivano-Frankivsk.
  2. DAUJOTAS “Y-DNA man like me”, cousin decided to go to farther Belarus or Poland but towards Lithuania (maybe Vilnius first because it was time of Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth but later on migrated northwest to the Baltic sea, near Mazeikiai). My Y-DNA SNP match, living man in Lithuania, about my age and his ancestral surname is Daujotas (MRCA c. 1880 AD). I contacted him on Facebook and maybe will meet soon 🙂
  3. KOSAREO “Y-DNA man like me”, cousin migrated to somewhere north Ukraine, because it would explain that present-day user from from USA does have his ancestry from russian empire and actually from Kyiv (his MRCA from 1913 year), so we can treat him as UA/RU/USA person, and his surname Kosareo most probably derived from Kosarev (maybe translated/transliterated from Косарёв). And we all three share this SNP I-FGS63213 as our common SNP.
  4. FORTH “Y-DNA man like me” exists on YFULL, but I don’t know his surname, nor country, nor language, just the fact of his DNA sample from Dante Labs and place on the tree (I-Y128456 same level SNP as I-FGC63213):

 

Anyhow, as of Aug-2023 it makes us as “some kind of sub-clade” of 4 men with different surnames but sharing same Y-DNA SNP I-FGC63213 in their Y chromosome.

 

 

Genealogical outcome

So I created a Google map, a pure guess but connecting our locations I hope it will help us in future to realize our closet ligation path. Aug-06-2023 snapshot:

Embedded view:

 

Again… between 400 CE and at least 1700 CE I have an informational gap.

But, anyway, now, when I compare all my research data (genealogical, ethnographic, geographical, genetic, archeological) looking to this map I can assume that THE CLOSEST my DIRECT Y-DNA male ancestors migration path was:

  • from unknown somewhere in Lviv region (around 1650/1720)
  • towards Selys’ko (1720/1730)
  • then towards Kalush in particular village Novytsya (same time 1730/1740)
  • and then towards village Markova (1750/1760)
  • and ended up in Molodkiv as my ACTUAL direct paternal genealogical ancestry line (1770/1780 – present).

 

to be continued…

 

Sources

 

Globetrekker, Part 1: A New FamilyTreeDNA Discover™ Report That Puts Big Y on the Map

 

Unveiling New FamilyTreeDNA Discover™ Features: Explore Your Haplogroup History with Personalized Reports

Plus:

 

      



Author: AliensFaith
HighTech FinTech researcher, university lecturer & Scholar. He is studying his second doctoral degree at the Hague International University. Studying different fields of Sciences gave him a broad understanding of various aspects of life. His recent researches covered AI, Machine-learning & Automation concepts. The Information Technology Skills & Knowledge gave his company a higher position over other regional high-tech consultancy services. The other qualities and activities which can describe him are a Hobbyist Programmer, Achiever, Strategic Thinker, Futuristic person, and Frequent Traveler.

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